Fwd: [opennms-cvs] [OpenNMS/opennms] 360737: Added Angular outage list that is mostly working.

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Fwd: [opennms-cvs] [OpenNMS/opennms] 360737: Added Angular outage list that is mostly working.

Ronny Trommer-3
IMHO: If we add more Angular JS stuff and more Vaadin stuff - we start to get a common UI strategy.

Begin forwarded message:

From: Seth Leger <[hidden email]>
Subject: [opennms-cvs] [OpenNMS/opennms] 360737: Added Angular outage list that is mostly working.
Date: 5. Juli 2016 um 12:10:38 MESZ
Reply-To: Seth Leger <[hidden email]>

 Branch: refs/heads/jira/NMS-2656/notifications
 Home:   https://github.com/OpenNMS/opennms
 Commit: 3607378064d6a3ad1f30987af0e6bd55ac2ef699
     https://github.com/OpenNMS/opennms/commit/3607378064d6a3ad1f30987af0e6bd55ac2ef699
 Author: Seth Leger <[hidden email]>
 Date:   2016-07-05 (Tue, 05 Jul 2016)

 Changed paths:
   M opennms-model/src/main/java/org/opennms/netmgt/model/OnmsOutage.java
   M opennms-model/src/test/java/org/opennms/netmgt/model/OnmsOutageTest.java
   M opennms-webapp-rest/src/test/resources/v1/outages.json
   A opennms-webapp/src/main/webapp/js/angular-onmsList-outage.js
   R opennms-webapp/src/main/webapp/outage/current.jsp
   A opennms-webapp/src/main/webapp/outage/indexNew.jsp
   A opennms-webapp/src/main/webapp/outage/main.html

 Log Message:
 -----------
 Added Angular outage list that is mostly working.


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Re: Fwd: [opennms-cvs] [OpenNMS/opennms] 360737: Added Angular outage list that is mostly working.

Seth Leger-2
I agree. I think that a Javascript-based UI is the future for most CRUD
pages such as viewing lists of data and editing simple configs.

My goal with the Angular list pages is to add useful filtering to the
lists with weak filtering (notifications, outages) which will address
bugs that have been reported for a very long time with OpenNMS's web UI:

http://issues.opennms.org/browse/HZN-427

After that works well, we can move to replacing the event, alarm, and
node lists with Angular as well. Angular simplifies the UI code
significantly. I did a quick calculation yesterday... the core Angular
list code is about 700 lines plus about 500 lines per implementation
(notification, outage, etc) and hasn't been refactored to consolidate a
lot of things. Still, this 1200 lines of code is replacing 4000+ lines
of JSP + Java. :)

-- Seth


On 7/5/16 7:27 AM, Ronny Trommer wrote:

> IMHO: If we add more Angular JS stuff and more Vaadin stuff - we start
> to get a common UI strategy.
>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> *From: *Seth Leger <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>> *Subject: **[opennms-cvs] [OpenNMS/opennms] 360737: Added Angular
>> outage list that is mostly working.*
>> *Date: *5. Juli 2016 um 12:10:38 MESZ
>> *To: *[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> *Reply-To: *Seth Leger <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>
>>  Branch: refs/heads/jira/NMS-2656/notifications
>>  Home:   https://github.com/OpenNMS/opennms
>>  Commit: 3607378064d6a3ad1f30987af0e6bd55ac2ef699
>>      https://github.com/OpenNMS/opennms/commit/3607378064d6a3ad1f30987af0e6bd55ac2ef699
>>  Author: Seth Leger <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>  Date:   2016-07-05 (Tue, 05 Jul 2016)
>>
>>  Changed paths:
>>    M opennms-model/src/main/java/org/opennms/netmgt/model/OnmsOutage.java
>>    M
>> opennms-model/src/test/java/org/opennms/netmgt/model/OnmsOutageTest.java
>>    M opennms-webapp-rest/src/test/resources/v1/outages.json
>>    A opennms-webapp/src/main/webapp/js/angular-onmsList-outage.js
>>    R opennms-webapp/src/main/webapp/outage/current.jsp
>>    A opennms-webapp/src/main/webapp/outage/indexNew.jsp
>>    A opennms-webapp/src/main/webapp/outage/main.html
>>
>>  Log Message:
>>  -----------
>>  Added Angular outage list that is mostly working.
>>
>>

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Re: Fwd: [opennms-cvs] [OpenNMS/opennms] 360737: Added Angular outage list that is mostly working.

Ronny Trommer-3
I think we should definitely set a common ground and “someone” decide to make ${FRAMEWORK} the OpenNMS UI framework. So everybody working in code can do refactorings in the same directions. With the current status we diverge the development and this makes it ridiculous complicated for all of us. Cause we start developing against each other.

Just to summarize, We haven’t replaced GWT and JSP pages and what else old things are left in the UI. We should really start talking about, what is the UI software architecture and strategy. Instead of unifying things we have just added things.

- JSP stuff with legacy styles
- GWT is still left
- Vaadin was added and got misused with OSGi, single Vaadin apps, everything has its own theming - this is quite a large part in the UI
- Angular JS was added in the provisioning probably also with own theming
- The Topology UI is its own place, I think Markus von Rüden knows most about it right know

IMHO at least core contributor should pull in the same direction. The current stuff we have makes it quite ridiculous expensive to get features in. I personally don’t care about the UI technology I’m just interested to move with all developers in the same direction and make the development less painful and less time consuming as it is right know. Probably DevJam should be a place to get an idea how to proceed with that stuff. I think Seth, Jesse, Alejandro, Markus, Christian and Ben spent a lot of time in UI development and should be the ones who define the architecture for OpenNMS - cause they have to work with it most of the time.

Just my two cents.

> On 05.07.2016, at 13:45, Seth Leger <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I agree. I think that a Javascript-based UI is the future for most CRUD
> pages such as viewing lists of data and editing simple configs.
>
> My goal with the Angular list pages is to add useful filtering to the
> lists with weak filtering (notifications, outages) which will address
> bugs that have been reported for a very long time with OpenNMS's web UI:
>
> http://issues.opennms.org/browse/HZN-427
>
> After that works well, we can move to replacing the event, alarm, and
> node lists with Angular as well. Angular simplifies the UI code
> significantly. I did a quick calculation yesterday... the core Angular
> list code is about 700 lines plus about 500 lines per implementation
> (notification, outage, etc) and hasn't been refactored to consolidate a
> lot of things. Still, this 1200 lines of code is replacing 4000+ lines
> of JSP + Java. :)
>
> -- Seth
>
>
> On 7/5/16 7:27 AM, Ronny Trommer wrote:
>> IMHO: If we add more Angular JS stuff and more Vaadin stuff - we start
>> to get a common UI strategy.
>>
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>
>>> *From: *Seth Leger <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>> *Subject: **[opennms-cvs] [OpenNMS/opennms] 360737: Added Angular
>>> outage list that is mostly working.*
>>> *Date: *5. Juli 2016 um 12:10:38 MESZ
>>> *To: *[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>> *Reply-To: *Seth Leger <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>>
>>> Branch: refs/heads/jira/NMS-2656/notifications
>>> Home:   https://github.com/OpenNMS/opennms
>>> Commit: 3607378064d6a3ad1f30987af0e6bd55ac2ef699
>>>     https://github.com/OpenNMS/opennms/commit/3607378064d6a3ad1f30987af0e6bd55ac2ef699
>>> Author: Seth Leger <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>> Date:   2016-07-05 (Tue, 05 Jul 2016)
>>>
>>> Changed paths:
>>>   M opennms-model/src/main/java/org/opennms/netmgt/model/OnmsOutage.java
>>>   M
>>> opennms-model/src/test/java/org/opennms/netmgt/model/OnmsOutageTest.java
>>>   M opennms-webapp-rest/src/test/resources/v1/outages.json
>>>   A opennms-webapp/src/main/webapp/js/angular-onmsList-outage.js
>>>   R opennms-webapp/src/main/webapp/outage/current.jsp
>>>   A opennms-webapp/src/main/webapp/outage/indexNew.jsp
>>>   A opennms-webapp/src/main/webapp/outage/main.html
>>>
>>> Log Message:
>>> -----------
>>> Added Angular outage list that is mostly working.
>>>
>>>
>
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Re: Fwd: [opennms-cvs] [OpenNMS/opennms] 360737: Added Angular outage list that is mostly working.

Alejandro Galue-3
Hello Ronny,

On Jul 5, 2016, at 8:46 AM, Ronny Trommer <[hidden email]> wrote:

I think we should definitely set a common ground and “someone” decide to make ${FRAMEWORK} the OpenNMS UI framework. So everybody working in code can do refactorings in the same directions. With the current status we diverge the development and this makes it ridiculous complicated for all of us. Cause we start developing against each other.

I agree.

Just to summarize, We haven’t replaced GWT and JSP pages and what else old things are left in the UI. We should really start talking about, what is the UI software architecture and strategy. Instead of unifying things we have just added things.

My goal for the DevJam 2016 is remove all the GWT related pages, and replace them with their AngularJS versions (even if that means add some improvements to the ReST API).

My second goal is to standardize and normalize the JavaScript dependencies in OpenNMS WebApp in order to have common NodeJS/Bower/Karma/* configuration, and treat all the JS dependencies like AngularJS as we do with any Java library with Maven.

In my personal opinion, it is a waste of time and resources to develop with Vaadin. It is drastically faster, enjoyable and more easy to use any JS library like AngularJS, specially for testing, but unfortunately, the main views we have with Vaadin require lots of changes to expose the required information through ReST in order to replace them with AngularJS, but I hope this can change in the future.

Alejandro Galue
PGP Key Fingerprint: 5293 6234 1E75 DF30 7821  1823 87AF 972E DAF8 BE2C




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Re: Fwd: [opennms-cvs] [OpenNMS/opennms] 360737: Added Angular outage list that is mostly working.

Ronny Trommer-3

On 05.07.2016, at 15:00, Alejandro Galue <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Ronny,

On Jul 5, 2016, at 8:46 AM, Ronny Trommer <[hidden email]> wrote:

I think we should definitely set a common ground and “someone” decide to make ${FRAMEWORK} the OpenNMS UI framework. So everybody working in code can do refactorings in the same directions. With the current status we diverge the development and this makes it ridiculous complicated for all of us. Cause we start developing against each other.

I agree.

Just to summarize, We haven’t replaced GWT and JSP pages and what else old things are left in the UI. We should really start talking about, what is the UI software architecture and strategy. Instead of unifying things we have just added things.

My goal for the DevJam 2016 is remove all the GWT related pages, and replace them with their AngularJS versions (even if that means add some improvements to the ReST API).

My second goal is to standardize and normalize the JavaScript dependencies in OpenNMS WebApp in order to have common NodeJS/Bower/Karma/* configuration, and treat all the JS dependencies like AngularJS as we do with any Java library with Maven.

In my personal opinion, it is a waste of time and resources to develop with Vaadin. It is drastically faster, enjoyable and more easy to use any JS library like AngularJS, specially for testing, but unfortunately, the main views we have with Vaadin require lots of changes to expose the required information through ReST in order to replace them with AngularJS, but I hope this can change in the future.

Even if you would succeed with your plan and you get everything done as you imagine for your project add DevJam - you removed some pain for you on one place, somebody else added more pain for you on another place and you have added pain for the other one on your place - this work mode does not make sense to me :)


Alejandro Galue
PGP Key Fingerprint: 5293 6234 1E75 DF30 7821  1823 87AF 972E DAF8 BE2C



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Re: Fwd: [opennms-cvs] [OpenNMS/opennms] 360737: Added Angular outage list that is mostly working.

Alejandro Galue-3

On Jul 5, 2016, at 9:23 AM, Ronny Trommer <[hidden email]> wrote:

Even if you would succeed with your plan and you get everything done as you imagine for your project add DevJam - you removed some pain for you on one place, somebody else added more pain for you on another place and you have added pain for the other one on your place - this work mode does not make sense to me :)

Could you please elaborate more on your idea ?

Alejandro Galue
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Re: Fwd: [opennms-cvs] [OpenNMS/opennms] 360737: Added Angular outage list that is mostly working.

Ronny Trommer-3

On 05.07.2016, at 15:36, Alejandro Galue <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Jul 5, 2016, at 9:23 AM, Ronny Trommer <[hidden email]> wrote:

Even if you would succeed with your plan and you get everything done as you imagine for your project add DevJam - you removed some pain for you on one place, somebody else added more pain for you on another place and you have added pain for the other one on your place - this work mode does not make sense to me :)

Could you please elaborate more on your idea ?

I don’t have in general no idea, but as soon we don’t get to common understanding, you are are one person refactoring code in one direction where you think this is the way to go and five others do something totally differently cause every individual person thinks this is the way to go make no sense to me. It’s not making anything better :)
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Re: [opennms-cvs] [OpenNMS/opennms] 360737: Added Angular outage list that is mostly working.

Alejandro Galue-3

On Jul 5, 2016, at 9:46 AM, Ronny Trommer <[hidden email]> wrote:

I don’t have in general no idea, but as soon we don’t get to common understanding, you are are one person refactoring code in one direction where you think this is the way to go and five others do something totally differently cause every individual person thinks this is the way to go make no sense to me. It’s not making anything better :)

I think I got you.

Well, I mentioned my ideas for the DevJam, but that doesn't mean they have to be merged into develop even if I finish them. My work will end on a PR, but it is not up to me to merge it. I agree that we have to decide what to do in the future, and my vote will be for the technology that it is easiest to learn and use, that's it.

Alejandro Galue
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Re: Angular vs. Vaadin

Benjamin Reed-4
In reply to this post by Ronny Trommer-3
On 7/5/16 9:46 AM, Ronny Trommer wrote:
> I don’t have in general no idea, but as soon we don’t get to common
> understanding, you are are one person refactoring code in one
> direction where you think this is the way to go and five others do
> something totally differently cause every individual person thinks
> this is the way to go make no sense to me. It’s not making anything
> better :)

Vaadin has clearly been a mistake, IMHO.  It seems to be the worst
combination of JS and Java for our uses, and is almost untestable
without a TON of work unless you happen to be running on a perfect
system that doesn't hit its race conditions.  It was a great way to
reuse Java expertise to make a more modern webapp, and was a step up
from straight-up JSPs, but it's mostly a bunch of extra work to avoid
writing straight javascript, which a number of us are already
comfortable working in directly.  Having pure JS apps also forces us to
implement good ReST APIs for accessing data, which benefits everyone.

We *definitely* need to pick a standard and go with it... I am with
Alejandro on the AngularJS train, personally.  BUT, if we're going to
start using it more, we need to normalize our javascript build system
and codebase a lot.  There's already a lot of copy+paste duplication in
the newer controls Seth made, and a mishmash of Angular apps in
different places.

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Re: Angular vs. Vaadin

Ronny Trommer-3
This type of discussion would make sense to me for devjam.

> On 05.07.2016, at 15:54, Benjamin Reed <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 7/5/16 9:46 AM, Ronny Trommer wrote:
>> I don’t have in general no idea, but as soon we don’t get to common
>> understanding, you are are one person refactoring code in one
>> direction where you think this is the way to go and five others do
>> something totally differently cause every individual person thinks
>> this is the way to go make no sense to me. It’s not making anything
>> better :)
>
> Vaadin has clearly been a mistake, IMHO.  It seems to be the worst
> combination of JS and Java for our uses, and is almost untestable
> without a TON of work unless you happen to be running on a perfect
> system that doesn't hit its race conditions.  It was a great way to
> reuse Java expertise to make a more modern webapp, and was a step up
> from straight-up JSPs, but it's mostly a bunch of extra work to avoid
> writing straight javascript, which a number of us are already
> comfortable working in directly.  Having pure JS apps also forces us to
> implement good ReST APIs for accessing data, which benefits everyone.
>
> We *definitely* need to pick a standard and go with it... I am with
> Alejandro on the AngularJS train, personally.  BUT, if we're going to
> start using it more, we need to normalize our javascript build system
> and codebase a lot.  There's already a lot of copy+paste duplication in
> the newer controls Seth made, and a mishmash of Angular apps in
> different places.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San
> Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
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> http://sdm.link/attshape
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> http://www.opennms.org/index.php/Mailing_List_FAQ
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Re: Angular vs. Vaadin

Markus von Rüden
Hey guys,

Don’t forget, that the following problem has to be solved for ${ui framework}:
How to deploy it as an OSGI bundle.

- Markus

> On 05 Jul 2016, at 16:00, Ronny Trommer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> This type of discussion would make sense to me for devjam.
>
>> On 05.07.2016, at 15:54, Benjamin Reed <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 7/5/16 9:46 AM, Ronny Trommer wrote:
>>> I don’t have in general no idea, but as soon we don’t get to common
>>> understanding, you are are one person refactoring code in one
>>> direction where you think this is the way to go and five others do
>>> something totally differently cause every individual person thinks
>>> this is the way to go make no sense to me. It’s not making anything
>>> better :)
>>
>> Vaadin has clearly been a mistake, IMHO.  It seems to be the worst
>> combination of JS and Java for our uses, and is almost untestable
>> without a TON of work unless you happen to be running on a perfect
>> system that doesn't hit its race conditions.  It was a great way to
>> reuse Java expertise to make a more modern webapp, and was a step up
>> from straight-up JSPs, but it's mostly a bunch of extra work to avoid
>> writing straight javascript, which a number of us are already
>> comfortable working in directly.  Having pure JS apps also forces us to
>> implement good ReST APIs for accessing data, which benefits everyone.
>>
>> We *definitely* need to pick a standard and go with it... I am with
>> Alejandro on the AngularJS train, personally.  BUT, if we're going to
>> start using it more, we need to normalize our javascript build system
>> and codebase a lot.  There's already a lot of copy+paste duplication in
>> the newer controls Seth made, and a mishmash of Angular apps in
>> different places.
>>
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>> everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today.
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>> http://www.opennms.org/index.php/Mailing_List_FAQ
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Re: Angular vs. Vaadin

Markus von Rüden
In reply to this post by Ronny Trommer-3
Hey guys,

Don’t forget, that the following problem has to be solved for ${ui framework}:
How to deploy it as an OSGI bundle.

- Markus

> On 05 Jul 2016, at 16:00, Ronny Trommer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> This type of discussion would make sense to me for devjam.
>
>> On 05.07.2016, at 15:54, Benjamin Reed <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 7/5/16 9:46 AM, Ronny Trommer wrote:
>>> I don’t have in general no idea, but as soon we don’t get to common
>>> understanding, you are are one person refactoring code in one
>>> direction where you think this is the way to go and five others do
>>> something totally differently cause every individual person thinks
>>> this is the way to go make no sense to me. It’s not making anything
>>> better :)
>>
>> Vaadin has clearly been a mistake, IMHO.  It seems to be the worst
>> combination of JS and Java for our uses, and is almost untestable
>> without a TON of work unless you happen to be running on a perfect
>> system that doesn't hit its race conditions.  It was a great way to
>> reuse Java expertise to make a more modern webapp, and was a step up
>> from straight-up JSPs, but it's mostly a bunch of extra work to avoid
>> writing straight javascript, which a number of us are already
>> comfortable working in directly.  Having pure JS apps also forces us to
>> implement good ReST APIs for accessing data, which benefits everyone.
>>
>> We *definitely* need to pick a standard and go with it... I am with
>> Alejandro on the AngularJS train, personally.  BUT, if we're going to
>> start using it more, we need to normalize our javascript build system
>> and codebase a lot.  There's already a lot of copy+paste duplication in
>> the newer controls Seth made, and a mishmash of Angular apps in
>> different places.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San
>> Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries
>> present their vision of the future. This family event has something for
>> everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today.
>> http://sdm.link/attshape
>> _______________________________________________
>> Please read the OpenNMS Mailing List FAQ:
>> http://www.opennms.org/index.php/Mailing_List_FAQ
>>
>> opennms-devel mailing list
>>
>> To *unsubscribe* or change your subscription options, see the bottom of this page:
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opennms-devel
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Fwd: [opennms-cvs] [OpenNMS/opennms] 360737: Added Angular outage list that is mostly working.

Seth Leger-2
In reply to this post by Alejandro Galue-3
On 7/5/16 9:00 AM, Alejandro Galue wrote:
> My goal for the DevJam 2016 is remove all the GWT related pages, and
> replace them with their AngularJS versions (even if that means add some
> improvements to the ReST API).

+1. I think everyone agrees that the piecemeal GWT components need to be
replaced and I think that Angular is a perfect solution for that since
(a) it's easily embeddable in the places that we use GWT and (b) almost
everything it needs to display is already available over REST (interface
lists on node page, resource lists for graph picker).


> My second goal is to standardize and normalize the JavaScript
> dependencies in OpenNMS WebApp in order to have common
> NodeJS/Bower/Karma/* configuration, and treat all the JS dependencies
> like AngularJS as we do with any Java library with Maven.

+10. My blood pressure rises slightly every hour I do JS development
without a test framework in place to save me from the many bugs that I
am surely writing.


> In my personal opinion, it is a waste of time and resources to develop
> with Vaadin. It is drastically faster, enjoyable and more easy to use
> any JS library like AngularJS, specially for testing, but unfortunately,
> the main views we have with Vaadin require lots of changes to expose the
> required information through ReST in order to replace them with
> AngularJS, but I hope this can change in the future.

This is a serious problem that we need to address. In the past, our
"model" objects were well-defined because they were tied directly to an
XML file (configs) or a database table (Hibernate DAO). For new systems,
the model objects are Java classes that aren't necessarily mapped to
persistent storage (ie. topology). However, we still need a way to
retrieve/manipulate these objects via REST so that Angular/*.js can
access them easily to produce UI elements.

I feel like in these cases, using Vaadin was like a prototyping step
because by using it, we didn't need to strictly separate the model, map
it to JAXB, then make a REST interface out of it while 5 people are
working on a UI on top of it. So maybe that was OK.

To use topology as an example, now that its code is more mature, we
should extract its model and treat it as relatively frozen (as frozen as
any other model object, like OnmsNode) so that we can wrap a REST
interface around it. Then we'll have the ability to use JS to refactor
the UI and it will give devops people an easy way to hook into the
topology API.

Would it have been faster to go REST-first with the topology UI if we
were starting out on it today (and had the JS/REST experience that we
have now)? Definitely. So that's probably how we should work on new
projects.

My $0.02,
Seth


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Re: Angular vs. Vaadin

Seth Leger-2
In reply to this post by Benjamin Reed-4
On 7/5/16 9:54 AM, Benjamin Reed wrote:
> We *definitely* need to pick a standard and go with it... I am with
> Alejandro on the AngularJS train, personally.  BUT, if we're going to
> start using it more, we need to normalize our javascript build system
> and codebase a lot.  There's already a lot of copy+paste duplication in
> the newer controls Seth made, and a mishmash of Angular apps in
> different places.

+1 with the caveat that the duplication in my onmsList code is not
unintentional. I'm just trying to cover all of the use cases for those
controls before I go back in and refactor things. I'm sure that
modularizing and directive-izing things would clean it up a lot but I
don't want to prematurely optimize. :)

-- Seth

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Re: Angular vs. Vaadin

Ronny Trommer-3
Just please consider:

you have served features for paid customers since 2 years now with Vaadin technology and you spend a lot of money in developing them at least 2 developers over 2 years.

- Dashboard
- Opsboard
- Opspanel
- BSM Editor
- Surveillance View Editor
- JMX Configuration UI
- Topology UI

File your Angular JS App here:

- Provisioning UI
- Kroger?

The Vaadin apps cover right quite a large feature set of the Webapp. What would you think if someone tells you, it was nice but the last 2 years of your life, you developed for the trashcan - I don’t think no developer wants to hear something like this. Even I don’t want to think about how much money came or went into the features developed with Vaadin. I don’t know the numbers exactly but I think David has a pretty good feeling about it.

It would be nice to spend more time to consider the consequences when we add or “try” to replace a technology what consequences it has. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against your decision to move to Angular, the technical argumentation makes sense. I think there is much more to consider and can’t be completely discussed on a mailing list, which is the reason I would like to move this talk to DevJam where everybody is there. I think it is not nice to just say - Fuck Vaadin here - Fuck Vaadin there, it does not help to get a constructive solution to the problem - “OUR" UI sucks really badly.

We don’t leverage from the modern Vaadin UI cause we can’t use it, we don’t leverage from modern Angular JS technology cause we can’t use it - We added bootstrap but we can’t leverage from it, cause we can’t really use it. It does not make any sense to me. The user is in pain with a bad UI and workflows, developers are in pain with the tech cruft, simple features are expensive because they need a lot of time, on-boarding of new people is quite impossible cause nobody gets the the tech cruft. We need to stop this somehow.

> On 05.07.2016, at 16:50, Seth Leger <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 7/5/16 9:54 AM, Benjamin Reed wrote:
>> We *definitely* need to pick a standard and go with it... I am with
>> Alejandro on the AngularJS train, personally.  BUT, if we're going to
>> start using it more, we need to normalize our javascript build system
>> and codebase a lot.  There's already a lot of copy+paste duplication in
>> the newer controls Seth made, and a mishmash of Angular apps in
>> different places.
>
> +1 with the caveat that the duplication in my onmsList code is not
> unintentional. I'm just trying to cover all of the use cases for those
> controls before I go back in and refactor things. I'm sure that
> modularizing and directive-izing things would clean it up a lot but I
> don't want to prematurely optimize. :)
>
> -- Seth
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Angular vs. Vaadin

Seth Leger-2
On 7/5/16 11:47 AM, Ronny Trommer wrote:
> The Vaadin apps cover right quite a large feature set of the Webapp.
> What would you think if someone tells you, it was nice but the last 2
> years of your life, you developed for the trashcan - I don’t think no
> developer wants to hear something like this. Even I don’t want to
> think about how much money came or went into the features developed
> with Vaadin. I don’t know the numbers exactly but I think David has a
> pretty good feeling about it.

I'm not saying that we need to immediately delete the Vaadin projects
and reinvest months of work to reimplement them with Angular. I think
that the biggest return on investment is replacing the legacy JSP/GWT
parts of the UI with Angular. It will make the UI look and function
better with less code and it will push us to enhance our REST
interfaces, which is a win for devops/CLI tools as well.

However it's worth considering that the ongoing maintenance on Vaadin is
pretty high: upgrades are painful (they have been in the topology app
anyway), the look-and-feel is difficult to match up with the rest of the
UI, etc.


> We don’t leverage from the modern Vaadin UI cause we can’t use it, we
> don’t leverage from modern Angular JS technology cause we can’t use
> it - We added bootstrap but we can’t leverage from it, cause we can’t
> really use it.

I don't agree with this. Is anyone frustrated because they can't fully
use Vaadin, Angular, or Bootstrap? We need to put in a
dependency/build/test framework for JS but otherwise, all of the tools
are ready today.


> on-boarding of new people is quite impossible cause nobody gets the
> the tech cruft.

REST + JS is going to be the easiest way to onboard cheap developers IMHO.

-- Seth


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Re: [opennms-cvs] [OpenNMS/opennms] 360737: Added Angular outage list that is mostly working.

David Hustace
In reply to this post by Seth Leger-2

> On Jul 5, 2016, at 10:45 AM, Seth Leger <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I feel like in these cases, using Vaadin was like a prototyping step
> because by using it, we didn't need to strictly separate the model, map
> it to JAXB, then make a REST interface out of it while 5 people are
> working on a UI on top of it. So maybe that was OK.

Here is what I recall from UI decisions that have been made during the life of the project:

Baseline: JSP

First attempt: JSF (failed)
 - Chosen and attempted before JS got it’s legs and seemed to integrate well with Hibernate

Second attempt: GWT (Partial impl)
 - Chosen for all it’s promises: JS client for Java coders and browser compatibility

Third attempt: Vaadin (Partial impl)
 - Chosen for the same reasons as GWT with the added Vaadin components but mainly for the server communication to help with the new Topology app.

Forth attempt: AngularJS (Partial impl)
 - Chosen because GWT, and Vaadin seem too inflexible (hence a Java developer’s tool)


So, what’s next?  I can’t help but think that we’re not asking the right questions.  There’s an elephant in the room and we’re focusing on, “What’s that smell?"


:David



David Hustace
President
The OpenNMS Group, Inc.
220 Chatham Business Drive, Suite 100
Pittsboro, NC  27312
+1 919 533 0160 x7734
*Quixotical*


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Re: [opennms-cvs] [OpenNMS/opennms] 360737: Added Angular outage list that is mostly working.

Ronny Trommer-3
This analogy doesn’t fit in my point of view. IMHO it is more like there is an elephant in the room, everybody sees it and feels the smell, but everyone is sitting in the onsite side of the corner and tries to dig hole with his hands get it out and hope it will disappear some point in time.

> So, what’s next?  I can’t help but think that we’re not asking the right questions.  There’s an elephant in the room and we’re focusing on, “What’s that smell?"


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Re: [opennms-cvs] [OpenNMS/opennms] 360737: Added Angular outage list that is mostly working.

David Hustace

> On Jul 5, 2016, at 2:07 PM, Ronny Trommer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> This analogy doesn’t fit in my point of view. IMHO it is more like there is an elephant in the room, everybody sees it and feels the smell, but everyone is sitting in the onsite side of the corner and tries to dig hole with his hands get it out and hope it will disappear some point in time.

You’re right.


:David

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Re: [opennms-cvs] [OpenNMS/opennms] 360737: Added Angular outage list that is mostly working.

Markus von Rüden
We should focus on the “What do we want to achieve” and “What are the requirements” and then pick a ui technology we think will be easiest to implement those requirements. Maybe implement a prototype to proof the assumptions.

All the pro’s and con’s of a ui framework are irrelevant if you cannot implement your requirements.

- Markus


> On 05 Jul 2016, at 20:21, David S Hustace <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>> On Jul 5, 2016, at 2:07 PM, Ronny Trommer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> This analogy doesn’t fit in my point of view. IMHO it is more like there is an elephant in the room, everybody sees it and feels the smell, but everyone is sitting in the onsite side of the corner and tries to dig hole with his hands get it out and hope it will disappear some point in time.
>
> You’re right.
>
>
> :David
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